"Written for a woman"

i am a big reader, and i tend to think of things much more as "written for smart people" than "written for women" or men or trannies or puppies or or or.
BUT there have been a billionty boy books throughout history that i've never really been able to get into, and sometimes it seems like for every jack london or kerouac or salinger or dear god help us sedaris or palahniuk there is 0.2% of a kathy acker or a kate chopin. the list of women writers that i hold in high regard is short, and i have a sneaking suspicion that it has less to do with them not existing and more to do with them not being given the chance to be widely published (plus, a smattering of danielle steels soiling the vagina's good name).

mostly i just feel like i'm being talked down to when i'm told that anything is created specifically for my gender (or any other demographic that i happen to fall into).

as a male, i have in the past felt conflicted about being into so many things that were written by and for women. on the one hand, i have my natural interest that occurs just because i'm drawn to the subject. but on the other, i experience a sort of guilt for ignoring a "keep out" sign, if you get what i mean.

i'm drawn to such things not because of curiosity, but for the same reason i check out anything that devaites from what i'm "supposed to be into". i have very little interest in the art & entertainment that is made for me, the white boy, and even less interest in supporting it with my time and money.

this is probably not the best advice coming from a fellow who has been repeatedly accused of reverse sexism in his creative endeavors, but i say write what you would want to read. personally, i'm glad to know there is one more kathy acker or kate chopin out there...because as you stated, things aren't even close to being balanced.

i don't think you're in any danger of alienating the men that are worth a damn. i hope that came out right

Rachael, I kinda agree. I feel like the stuff that is specifically written for my gender usually has the word "Prada" or "Shopping" in the title and is about a twenty-something searching for love while working some glam job in a big city and having sex and having high-school mature-level relationships.

Shirley Jackson, for instance, or Marion Zimmer Bradley, two female authors who wrote for a general audience, or a dual-sex genre audience, are much more enjoyable to me. Most of my fave authors happen to be female, but I don't think they were writing for a female audience specifically. Aside from the aforementioned, Tanith lee, Robin mcKinley, Anne Mccaffrey, merceds Lackey, and Ursula K. leGuin all wrote in a fantasy genre, but never just for women. I think the difference is that these women tended to write ABOUT women, rather than FOR Women. I think that's the major difference that most TV producers tend to miss when creating shows like Lipstick Jungle (shudder)

When it is "just for women" it tends to be dumbed down and condescending ("Sex & The City", anyone?), I agree.

I agree with Heidi - the norm is "for women" = dumbed down. Look at all the Chick Lit and Romance and Women's magazines out there. (Not that there aren't exceptions in the magazines.)

In horror literature, with the possible exception of sub-genres like paranormal romance, things are generally gender-neutral. Men and women write the same kinds of stories. Men and women like the same kinds of stories. Disturbing is disturbing, no matter who's reading it or writing it. Jack Ketchum writes some seriously disturbing and horrific shit, but some of it is exceedingly appealing to women. (Ladies Night.) Heidi mentioned Shirley Jackson and Marion Zimmer Bradley who wrote for general audiences, which made me think about this: if you're writing for a gender-specific audience, unless you're writing about things that are absolutely specific to women (like menstruation or typically female-centric issues like breast cancer) you're limiting yourself unnecessarily. I think the fiction "for women" is probably more boring than reading about algebra, or the history of rubber cement.

Thanks folks, your input is greatly appreciated! Yes, a lot of "women's lit" is "dumbed down" but there is lit that is supposedly more for women and stories that I love too. The one example that comes to mind is Little Women. Oh and the color purple. Those are two women's lit examples that I think span gender but are more specifically "aimed" at women.

If a woman writes in a 'dumbed-down' manner, does that make it any better? Or does that make it worse? Opinions...

Also, modern "women's lit" is appalling. And I am making it my personal goal to have mostly female lead characters in my stories. Which is what my collection that I just put together has: all female leads.

Anyhoo...thanks for the input and opinions!

i do the same when i make movies

I noticed that you do Andrew, I have bought one and plan on purchasing more in the very near future! I like your movies...

Here is my ramble filled response.

I'm not much of a feminist. I like what I like. I really don't worry about what gender a person is or what gender something is supposedly for. If I like it, I like it. Granted, overly testosterone filled entertainment isn't for me (that show Entourage makes me want to eat chocolate with curlers in my hair while rejuvenating myself with a facial - three things I don't do) but overly filled estrogen stuff isn't for me, either. I don't watch Lifetime and I don't read romance novels. However, I do find Sex and the City funny simply because it seems to poke fun at its overly estrogen filled characters.

I like stuff by either gender, for either gender. No preference except that it's good enough to appeal to me.

I finally started Guilty Pleasures by Laurell K. Hamilton and am thoroughly enjoying myself. And I don't feel like I'm being preached at by a female author.

My own stories contain male and female leads. And they are stories that could appeal to anyone, especially a horror fan.

It is a shame that more female names aren't in the mainstream. Not because I would immediately flock to them, but because I'd like to see that all humans really are "equal".

sounds like solid feminism to me (not a bad thing at all).

gabby, i appreciate the compliment and i do remember you picking up "cannibal sisters". i should send you the new one( when the dvd is ready.

Haha! Yeah, you're right. I guess I never looked at it like that.

Val, firstly...I love you. You are a true feminist!

Andrew, I WOULD LOVE THAT!

:mrgreen:

Guess I need to check my definition of a feminist. I always assumed that you're only a feminist if you actively take part. I don't feel that I do. But maybe by riding the line, I am in some way? It's late and I'm confuzzled. lol

I would like to change my response to "humanist". I mean...up with humans, eh?

AMEN!

I was just wondering that the other day. Why is everything from a woman's perspective branded as "chick lit?" If it isn't, why does it seem that everything written by women is "Chick lit?" When men write from a woman's perspective (i.e. James Patterson, Stephen King), it's fine. There's no "Chick lit" element mentioned. They are just brilliant for so genuinely capturing the female mystique or some such crap. Lol. Sounds like a bad perfume commercial.. "Essence of woman..."

But, whoa-ho if a woman does it! Despite the fact that we make half the population (roughly) and certainly read more, we are writing "women's material."

Maybe we should start making the heroes?...lol.

Despite the self-important pseudo-progression felt by our male counterparts, they are just as primitive with the same closed minded stereotypical thinking as our grandfathers. At least, that's what it looks like.

I don't write "Chick lit" I don't really think I can. The last two attempts at romance ended up going into the areas of governmental conspiracy and the other into horror. I gave up. It's not me. I'm not writing like that.

The only thing I know to do is to persevere. That's all we can do. We can hope that someone will get the picture one day that men reading about women is no different than women reading about men. Also, the "good ol' boy" system is about a genuine and natural as Joan Rivers' complexion (no offense to Joan, I adore her stand-up). It doesn't work. The good stuff falls through the cracks, gets discovered, and the "head honchos" loose all credibility in the long run.

Now this is something I can rant on...lol.

i can identify with this. believe it or not, ice-t has a song where he says, "when i wrote about parties/someone always died", a reference to a failed attempt to come up with a club hit.

LOL. I can relate. I've never figured out though if it's life imitating art or art imitating life. If anything.

I always thought if i ever wrote a script, it would be hi-larious and funny. As it turns out, I can only write the most depressing, evil, vilely emotional things well. Everything else comes out crappy. Who knew? I am not a comedy script writer.

I can write fiction prose with a touch of comedy, but the comedy is very dark and almost not-funny. It's too bad! i would love to have been able to Tina Fey-out, since that's the type of comedy I love more than anything else. But it's not within my talents naturally.

I love comedy, but I would like to do the Monte Python type stuff. Eric Idol is amazing. Well, I like the Zucker bothers, too.

I love to laugh as much as anything. I think I could do stand-up better than writing comedy because I have a strong accent that's pretty unshakable.

I would like to write a good mystery, though. Maybe in the future.

Wow. Whenever I try to write something, even if I want it to be horrifically evil, it turns out to be more of a comedy than anything else. One director even said my horror movie script ("Blood Makes Noise") was a dark comedy masquerading as a horror movie.

Jessica

This reminds me of one of the arguments I heard for why women like to read and write gay erotica: because the two men are already starting out at "equal footing" and they don't like the power dynamics in a regular het pairing.

Um, WHAT???

And yes, this was said by a WOMAN!

O_O

:roll: