So Tired of Hypocritical Self Publishing Snobs

yay! I applaud this speech.

Kudos Wolves, you make some excellent points.

I'll admit, I'm a bit of a self-publishing snob at times but i do support your stance on why indi can be awesome and cool. And you're right for the most part about a lot of what you've said and now that the technology is here you can see a lot of indi writers out there, I mean blogging has taken the world by storm and that's one form, yes?

But you want to know why a lot of people snub the self published paper authors?

There's a lot of people out there that could self publish and make a great living if self publishing became more accepted and less frowned upon. I know a few actually and they have to work damn hard to make it, but they do and they are talented.

But for every handful of honest to goodness talented folks out there that should make it, and have every ability to do so, there's a super huge host of slackers and hacks they have to compete against that saturate the market and drag it down.

Maybe that sounds super negative, but a lot of pay-to-print and vanity publishers make their bread and butter off of shelling out thousands of crappy, poorly written, unedited and terrible stories and the likes every year and when all people can see is crap coming from the indi industry, that's what they first hear when they hear "Self-published". When I was getting my literature degree I tried to involve myself with as many writer's groups and such as possible and as a result I ran into a lot of "authors" who took the self publishing route and like to wave their books around and sing their own praises to the rest of us because we were all still 'undiscovered nobodies'. I read a few of them, looking into the option for myself honestly. It was tempting, I'll admit. But then...gods... it was terrible. Sure they were published, but it was trash. Spelling errors, plot holes the size of a lake and just not something anyone should pay money for. And maybe that's put me off. I'm still always open to reading indi when I get the time, but I'm hesitant of ever buying it. There's no standard in the indi industry. Self publishing companies make it too easy to churn out unpolished crap. Without an editor stepping in and saying "Um, No." there's no filter and no end to the outpouring of bad work that only makes the good self publishers look terrible. Sure technology has given us a lot more opportunity and freedom to do this, but where's the standard?

Take a look at the controversy behind Publish A****** (I won't publish the full name here because there's been cases where one of their "authors" searches up the name and tries to start controversy if they see someone bad mouthing the place)

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10211
http://critters.critique.org/sting/

You can also just search up more about them if you'd like. They're fairly notorious it seems. There's a reasont hey're called vanity publishers, they cater to the vanity of those who aren't willing to put the work into making something quality.

It's easy to see the publishing industry as a vicious fat cat that holds the indi's down, but I'm of the opinion that it's less their fault than most people think. Talk to a literary agent and they'll tell you much the same thing.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that I agree that the indi market should be more prevalent and indi writer's should be able to earn the same respect but it's going to be a tough uphill battle until we find some way to really let the quality shine through the muck.

Dude, I gotta say that when it comes to other forms of indie writing, like blogs and websites, the same is true.

And independent films, too.

I think unfortunately the truth is that only about 1,000 out of 100,000 people are truly talented. And in order for those thousand to be able to create, we also need to enable those 99,000 who suck ass to create as well. Otherwise the 1000 will never have an outlet.

We need to ask ourselves - are the 1000 good creations worth the other 99,000 crappy ones?

I, bleeding heart, say yes.

I never meant to say it wasn't Heidi! I'm not condemning the struggling writers, some of the most wonderful and praised writers we know were the under dogs that had to fight for their place in the sun. I'm just pointing out why the system is flawed and how it puts self publishers in a bad spot. I like to think there's a middle ground though. There's Tons of small and medium sized publishers that aren't all about the dollar signs but they do insist on quality. They're more likely to publish the stuff that goes against the grain and they can still help support the book even if they don't have millions of dollars to pitch at something. But it still lends that little bit of credibility that the self publishing industry still sadly lacks.

Trust me, I Love indi, even if I am a corporate shill at the same time. I want to see a world where big business and indi get along just fine in co-existence. And I agree with you Heidi, the 1,000 is worth the 99,000. However, that 1,000 have a huge fight on their hands.

Too true,

I myself cringe when I see bad blogs or rip-off websites that don't really say ANYTHING, but just want to 'be a part' of whatever it is they think is happening.

It is a shame and we should totally vent about bad self-published crap.

I hope we aren't talking about my site here. I mean, I know I'm a hack. But I'm really only doing it for the love of it.

oh. My. God.

I just realized that I'm one of the 99,000.

I'm not part of the solution at all!

I'm the problem!

*Meltdown*

Minervali, I hear ya. There are so many shitty self published books floating around out there. A few years back I wrote a book of horror flash fiction. It made the rounds and, thanks to my friends, ended up at the very top of a couple publishers "slush piles". So these publishers actually read it and enjoyed it and I was going back and forth with them, and things were looking up, but then all of a sudden they wanted to change things. One of them even told me to "make it longer". So I pulled the plug, agitating the authors who had gone to bat for me in the first place, but thankfully they got over it.

Anyways, when it began to look like I was about to be "popular", all these indi writers started sending me their self published books to review. At first I was flattered, and then I actually read the books and realized they were absolute shit. I didn't have the heart to tell them this, and I didn't have the heart to write a bad review of their book, so I basically just bullshitted good reviews for books that really, really sucked. I did that a couple times and then finally just stopped helping people, because I knew I wouldn't be able to give an honest review and say a book sucked when it was obvious the authors had put so much hope and effort into it.

And yeah, shitty books give the self publishing industry a bad name. But my main problem is that if someone tells you they're in an indi band, the public is like, "Well duh, indi music is so much better than that corporate sellout crap." If they say they're making indi movies, the public is like, "Right on, staying true to your vision, etc." But then, when someone says they're self published, the public's reaction is silent embarassment, like "oh man this guy (or gal) is a total fucking loser. If it was really any good it would be published by a REAL publisher."

That double standard is total B.S. If indi music is cool, and indi movies are cool, then indi books should be too.

Hmmm, I know what you mean about people's double standards. However, in my defense, I'm not impressed by the label indi right off the bat. If music is good to my ears, I'll listen to it. If a movie is good, I'll watch it. I think television and movies has made the term Indi cool and that's why the kids all want to follow indi, because indi is trendy. Now I support indi artists. But that doesn't men I'll support someone I don't like or appreciate.

I can also relate to you about getting piles of bad stuff and how to deal with it. I wrote a play that a group at my university performed (Much to my horror now, it was a butcher of a show because of some back stage politics) and made the mistake of appearing as "myself" as I worked with the production and I suddenly had a few fan girls who wanted me to mentor them for some reason, even though the show didn't go as planned, and I agreed because I wanted to be helpful. But these girls didn't so much want help or mentoring, when I gave them the criticism their stories needed, they all got weepy and upset. And because I didn't just rave about their blatant Buffy/Angel Fan fiction rip off scripts I was suddenly dumped off my idol because I simply had no vision. I felt bad for hurting their feelings, but if I wasn't honest with them then they would never see the flaws in their work.

It's kind of why I'm a big fan of some parts of the publishing industry. If a big publisher is going to drop that kind of money on me, I can appreciate their need for changes. They aren't just going to pay me to spit on a page. They're investing in a project. So I guess I can respect the give and take of it all. An editor isn't going to tell me I wrote something badly because they get off on being mean and nasty, they're trying to make it work. Sometimes it's the right thing, sometimes it's not.

And I wouldn't judge everything by the public. A lot of times, the public is blind to what's really going on behind the scenes. Indi Music and Indi films, while both have their golden children amongst their ranks, are largely "cool" because it's trendy.

At this point I would be happy with trendy.

"And because I didn't just rave about their blatant Buffy/Angel Fan fiction rip off scripts..." Yeah, I've read one of those, only it was a book.

"A lot of times, the public is blind to what's really going on behind the scenes." I couldn't agree more.

Ohhhh youuu. If I thought you were a hack i wouldn't post your awesome articles!

Awwww, you're so good for my self esteem Heidi.

I should probably get something into you soon now that I'm reminded. I'm currently working on a peice called: "False Feminism - How Joan of Arc Put Women Back In The Kitchen."